It may not display this or other websites correctly. If not, you will want to get the latest computer updates before the warranty expires on it. What is this all about? Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low percentage . States PCM reprogram due to engine shudder, is this anyway related to 21B03. Ford is offering a no-cost repair to reprogram the PCM on these vehicles suffering from engine shudder following the previous 21B10 update. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. 21N08 is for those with engine shudders. This issue is often caused by a software glitch or by using incompatible software for the specific make and model of the car. JavaScript is disabled. Symptoms of a bad cam phaser include a loud engine rattle or tick when the engine is running, a check engine light, and stalling at a red light. Only 21B10 has to be completed, 21N08 is extended coverage. Powertrain Control Module Reprogram for Cam Phaser Rattle, Rear Light Wiring Ford Tail Light Wire Colors, Top 6 Brake Pads for 2013 Ford F150 44: Find the Perfect Fit for Your Truck, 6 Best Mud Flaps for F150: Ultimate Guide for Truck Owners, Boost Your F150s Power: Best 9 Cold Air Intakes for 2017 Ecoboost Reviewed. Mine doesn't die like yours, but definitely a problem there. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. That said, after some pressuring, I had a Ford technician told me that it would likely cost around $300 to run the reprogramming on your PCM if you were to bring it in outside of warranty. The cause of engine shudder can vary, but its often the result of an imbalance in the engine itself. Reboot. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. I noticed mine is doing this as well. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. The 5.4L Ford engine is a V8 that was used in many different vehicles from . Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder. . This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. might be auto on/off that truck comes equipped with, There is a new Recall specifically for this. This campaign is for vehicles that had 21B10 S2 performed and had an engine shudder afterward. I got it too. call your dealer and schedule an appointment. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. Ford TSB 21N08 Make: Ford Number: 21N08 Date: 10/29/2021 Title: PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder Summary: In a very low percentage of the affected vehicles, an engine shudder may develop after receiving the PCM update provided in program 21B10. However, the engine shudder is quite noticeable. Privacy Statement - That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. - Anyone have any information regarding the new recall notice I just received in the Ford App. Hey! It may not display this or other websites correctly. Its usually most noticeable at idle, but can also be felt when accelerating. When this happens, the engine can stall without warning and the vehicle may not be able to be restarted. This removes the shudder. Thats why were committed to quickly addressing any issues that may arise with our vehicles. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Your email address will not be published. Unfortunately, many users reported a return of the symptoms after the 21B10 reflash. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. These effected models include: This vehicle repair also covers the Ford Raptor and Limited F150 variants. UPDATE: So I talked to Ford customer service today. 10,492. BUT..I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. Manage Preferences - X-Bull winch reviews | Where are they made? What is my next option? Has anyone had FSA 21N08 reflash done yet? | Page 4 | Ford Expedition Forum In some cases, a little bit of harmless vibrations is perfectly normal and nothing to worry about. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. No matter what the cause of your engine shudder may be, its always best to err on the side of caution and get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. Looking to buy my first F150, But the 21N08 Update Calling the dealer when I get back and having it looked at thanks for this info. The truck seems to be driving fine, although I did have some cam/crank codes last month and went to dealer where they performed TSB 21-2357 and SSM 48423. Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. By logging into your account, you agree to our. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners. Reboot. It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. . I had 21B03 and knock on wood I haven't had any negative side effects like I have read about Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information, https://www.f150forum.com/f118/field6275/index152/. Be aware that your cam phaser rattle may return. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. That said, Id still check. Getting the parts changed out by a poorly trained monkey when not needed is risky in my opinion. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. 5. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. By logging into your account, you agree to our, yes they are only done if the concern is present. Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans . Fords are equipped with an adaptive shift feature where the computer learns to adjust the shifting for a smoother ride based on the drivers habits. The good news is that replacing the cam phasers will fix the cold start rattle. Until I get some specifics on what the reprograms do, I'm holding off. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder", Yep -- what ASV said. I am actually looking to buy my first F150 3.5L EcoBoost, as a used truck, but have seen a lot of posts regarding the. Im meticulous about my oil changes, every 4000-5000 miles using Amsoil 100% synthetic. . Check with your dealer to see if your vehicle is eligible and make an appointment for service. Issues with IWE potentially caused by PCM Reprogram. One of the most common issues that you may face is to program 21n08 PCM to reprogram due to engine shudder. That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. In some cases, this can lead to a crash. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Lincoln TSB 21N08 2019 Navigator | CarComplaints.com and if so an updated calibration will be applied. I had the original work done under warranty 54k . The affected vehicle exhibits a very noticeable shudder, and can be pretty concerning. This seems like a red flag when combined with the recent "Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER" and "Program #21B10 POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE REPROGRAM FOR CAM PHASER RATTLE" repairs that show up on the carfax. Because the 21B10 has expired and the 21N03 is about to expire at the time of this writing, we need to explore what your costs would be if you needed to replace the cam phasers out of your own wallet. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. Fords brilliant idea was to revert the programming back to the original level. I was told by my dealer that any FSA'S that have a "B" in them is a fix they are required to do. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. It is not necessary to remove the two left valve cover camshaft sensors. The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. This campaign is for vehicles that had 21B10 S2 performed and had an engine shudder afterward. Everything seems relatively fine since, no check engine lights. The engine shudders 21N08 issue is a problem that causes the engine to shake or shudder. Generally, the timing chain, chain tensioners and water pump will be replaced at the same time, driving costs up to about $3,000. Hey all, I am looking to buy my first full size truck and very interested in a used F-150 3.5L EcoBoost, all because of being good in gas consumption and the amazing towing capability. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. I had 21B10 done last week on my '19. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. 21n08 - PCM reprogram due to engine shudder. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans, Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, Send a private message to VelocityBlue2020, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. PDF TO - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration It is an essential part of a cars powertrain system and is responsible for managing the fuel delivery, ignition timing, and transmission shifts to ensure optimal performance and efficiency of the car. Yep I have been told it just means that Ford is extending the warranty in regards to cam phasers to 75k I believe. Oftentimes, this engine shudder may be mistaken for a transmission shudder. Cookie Policy - This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. I an having the same issues with my 2013 f150 ecoboost 116k started about 6 months ago. While engine shudder can be alarming, its important to keep in mind that not all instances are created equal. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); We use cookies to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyse our traffic. This is the PCM update to prevent cam phaser rattle and will erase your tune. Had my cam phasers done back in July. 21N08B 1.2 Hours Manage Preferences - While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, such as replacing transmission components or performing other repairs, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Need some help ASAP Code P06B6/ Faulty PCM, Ford SVT Raptor General Discussions [GEN 1], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? The problem stems from the fact that these vehicles are equipped with an engine control module (ECM) that can fail due to a software error. In simple terms, engine shudder is a vibration that can be felt coming from the engine bay. There are several F150s, Expeditions, and Navigators that needed a PCM reprogram due to an Engine shudder. Powertrain Control Module Reprogram for Cam Phaser Rattle Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Posts: 20. Cam phaser requires extensive effort and should only be attempted by those who are comfortable with working on cars. Did the re program- to no avail- the engine light back on. The PCM reprogramming process can help to prevent the engine shudder 21N08 issue from recurring in the future. If your Raptor is experiencing engine shudder, you may need to have the PCM (powertrain control module) reprogrammed. This program covers certain repairs that may be needed as a result of a software issue. Contact Us - Send us a private message with your F-150's VIN. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Honestly? If you own one of these affected vehicles, you should take it to your local dealership as soon as possible to have the ECM reprogrammed. The truck. The 21N03 was the one I was thinking of. Recall letters were mailed to each affected vehicle owner On September 27, 2021. Ford is aware of this problem and has issued a recall to fix it. The 21B10 was designed to solve a cam phasers rattle by increasing oil flow to them, but a percentage of affected vehicles demonstrated the side effect of an engine shudder. @Lawnpro have you changed your spark plugs yet? I appreciate the help. If you previously received the 21B10 PCM update at a Ford dealer and are now experiencing the engine shudder, you should take advantage of the PCM reprogram. 2015 - 2020 Ford F150 - Are CSP's only performed as needed? Shudder/Jerking Issue When Accelerating - Ford F150 Forum Ford Motor Company will provide a no-cost, one-time repair under program 21N08 to return the vehicle's PCM to the prior calibration. If your car is experiencing engine shudder, it may be time for a PCM reprogram. The open recalls are unrelated to the transmission. I have a 2018, just got the same notice. Thank you for choosing Ford! Buy or Avoid? 2nd Gen with #21B10 and #21N08 and - Ford Raptor Forum 21N08 update, So I do not know if should pull the trigger or not. If you search 21N08 you'll see that's the fix for it. Less rattle on startup, and no adverse effects so far. Any suggestions on what to do would be helpful? Summary. This newer field service action 21N08 software update is designed to solve the motor shuddering problem caused by the 21B10 reflash. The F150 is the best-selling pickup truck in Americaand has been for 45 years. However, for peace of mind, Ford is providing an extended warranty for customers who receive the PCM update under program 21B10 prior to December 31, 2021 and continue to experience cam phaser noise after receiving that PCM update, A cam phaser that has developed an undesirable noise does not affect the vehicle safety, performance, or emissions. This repair is a one-time thing and is only offered until Janurary 1st, 2023. I have used premium fuel and it didnt make any difference. Can the engine shudder 21N08 issue be fixed without reprogramming the PCM? First off, be aware that CarFax may show these recalls whether or not they have been done. Privacy Statement - This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. Required fields are marked *. This can be caused by something as simple as a loose spark plug, or something more serious like an issue with the crankshaft or connecting rods. 21N08 Ford Technical Service Bulletin - tsbsearch.com When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Im new to my 20, is this a TSB? By logging into your account, you agree to our. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder". cam phaser rattles. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". Location. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. What did you do to your truck today? Customer Satisfaction Program 21N08 Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder LABOR ALLOWANCES Description Labor Operation Labor Time Test drive to verify engine shudder and reprogram PCM to last revision. Ill try to update this report in 2023 as this customer satisfaction bulletin expires. Mine does this while at low rpms. I asked them to let me know if the Cam Phaser Rattle recall had ever been done to the vehicle and when I picked it up, they told me they did "RECALL 210B10" and the work order stated "210B10D Reprogram PCM to the latest level". and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low . Go back and tell the dealer is has a shudder. I have an appointment to drop mine off in October. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. So i guess every 30k miles i am looking at $1200 bill..crazy this is not covered under warranty!!! There are several reasons why the PCM may need to be reprogrammed. The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. BUT.I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the. However, if the vibrations are severe enough to cause your car to shake or rattle, then its definitely time to take it to a mechanic for further diagnosis. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, https://www.f150forum.com/f118/field6275/index148/. Over the weekend I pulled over to the side of the road to get something out of the glove box and the truck stalled while I was idling in park. The vehicle is a CPO but I feel like the selling dealership didn't do a great job looking it over, so I took to a local dealer in AZ (I purchased it in UT). If your vehicle is equipped with the 3.6L engine and has less than 80,000 miles, it may be eligible for a free of charge power control module (PCM) reprogramming. Reaction score. This recall affects a variety of models from the 2012-2013 model years, including the Escape, Fusion, Taurus, Flex, Explorer, and F-150. Just extended the coverage. And if you do need to restart it, make sure youre in neutral or park before doing so. My name is Zachary Drumm! Plenty of better engineered options out there. The recall is for bikes with front wheels that can detach unexpectedly, posing a fall hazard to riders. Is this related to the cam phaser reflash FSA? Surprised to not see a whole slew of threads or posts on 21N08. Likes: 1. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. This is because the PCM reprogramming process addresses the root cause of the issue and can help to prevent the issue from recurring in the future. Advertising - One potential cause of engine shudder is an issue with the PCM, or powertrain control module. This PCM update is program 21B10. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. If youre a Ford owner, you may be eligible for the Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10. at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. . The 21N08 PCM reprogramming is due to an engine shudder that was noticed by some customers. If your Ford vehicle is experiencing an engine shudder, its important to get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. Cookie Policy - The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. PCM Reprogram Due To Engine Shudder 21N08 - Tool Tally Your car should also be outside of its warranty in order to keep from voiding a warranty on your car. Hmm very interesting perhaps I should take it in and see if they will replace mine. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". Because they are such a popular model, Ford F150 owners have their own forums and subreddits devoted to their truck model. Originally, I understood the engine shudder to be a miscommunication between the camshaft position sensor and the PCM. The situation is really bad with Ford now. PDF TO: SUBJECT: Customer Satisfaction Program 21N03 - Supplement #1 Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Positive Experience: Third Party Warranty Repair, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? Because of this issue, your engine may shake or shudder. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. (1). However, the increased oil in the cam phasers may affect engine performance, especially when cruising at a steady speed. additional VCT or engine timing related components not included in the Parts List. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) needs to have been first reprogrammed under the earlier customer satisfaction program 21B10. It may not display this or other websites correctly. In rare instances, some vehicles will experience an engine shudder after reprogramming the PCM with the 21B10 update. It is important to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue to maintain the performance and safety of the vehicle. The dealer will reflash the powertrain control module (PCM) with new software to fix the problem. At the time I scheduled service, I clarified that whether or not my vehicle had experienced a rattle at startup, that a reprogramming would be done. The 21N08 update is pretty new like just a couple of weeks old, so I do not know if that will fix the engine shudder or the cold start rattle. Strange first post. Within a day or less, the cam phaser was rattling again and my engine was shuddering. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. In some cases, the engine may enter limp mode. In addition, the ECM will receive an update that will improve transmission shift quality. The recall does not mean there is anything wrong with the vehicle, its a software update to prevent a phaser rattle noise from developing. Sounds pretty promising Sounds pretty promising Replacing rear bumper trim panel - anyone had to? The three trucks I have looked at have had the 21N08 update, so my question is..If you were in my position, would you pull the . Manage Preferences - The benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue include: By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. But what exactly is engine shudder? PDF TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 20- 3.5L EcoBoost - Cold Start Ticking The Ford F150 sold 663,508 trucks in 2021, beating out Ram and GM. Y'all better read that letter again. Some specific causes of the engine shudder 21N08 issue may include-. Terms of Service - By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. Once 21B10 is done, it unlocks two customer satisfaction programs 21N03 and 21N08. I ended up having it in the shop 4 times between 3 different dealerships and none of them could fix the issue. They are past due. This makes it easy for them to compare symptoms, find solutions and unlock the best-hidden features in their trucks.