Those are the two big differences I see on a quick glance, there may be more if you dig into it. The druid turns to dust, since the spell disintegrates you the instant you Make it a part of your character post campaign that they're going to experiment and make a spell that permanently changes their form to a dragon or something. Its unclear what happens when you revert: has time passed for your body? Is there a general rule that covers interaction between effects that cause death at 0 hit points and features that prevent death at 0 hit points? The Disintegrate result overwrites the "fall unconscious" effect for the targeted creature. And that particular cat form, if it's the one I'm thinking - it stops working at level 43 because, according to the race file, it recieves massive stat boosts at that level, becoming essentially a dire form. @JeremyECrawford What happens if a wild shaped druid is reduced to 0 by disintegrate? We'll look into beefing up shapechange vs. polymorph at that time. The intent is that a druid using Wild Shape is disintegrated if So a brass dragon cannot change shape into a lich. (That's powerful magic). points you had before you transformed. How do I stop the Flickering on Mode 13h? * (a jade circlet worth at least 1,500 gp, which you must place on your head before you cast the spell). Adding EV Charger (100A) in secondary panel (100A) fed off main (200A). Thats the literal interpretation of the rules ", @Kashir on page 14 of SA compendium Crawford provides a RAI and RAW PoV, which is why I have two answers. by Hrosskell Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:08 am, Post You turn back into a lvl 17+ Wizard. RPGBOT.Podcast co-host and RPGBOT contributing author. While polymorphed, the targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. This site works best with JavaScript enabled. A few last thoughts. Manage Settings True Polymorph didnt exist before 5th edition and is an odd combination of Polymorph Any Object and Shapechange that has the notable distinction of being permanent if you can concentrate on it for the full hour. This spell has no effect on a shapechanger or a creature with 0 hit points. Did it enjoy being used for the purpose for which it was made? Would that then let it take priority? Thank you for your comment and welcome to RPG StackExchange. Keep in mind that nothing prevents the wizard from making his clone in case he dies while in his TP form. You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature. The whole spell is so vaguely worded that basically any casting of it starts with an argument with your DM, so Im going to try and provide some clarity here. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. True Polymorph, Dragon Change Shape, and True Sight interaction. Your DM will probably be interested to hear what the dev had to say on this. And true polymorph allow changing creatures into objects and vice versa. If the intent was to include all things legendary I believe it would have been writen that way. If I use magic to see a pit fiend in a dream (with the Dream spell), does that count? You cant use any legendary actions or lair actions of the new form. This is as a consequence of the wizard's spell level being augmented by their character level; a level 50 wizard with grandmastered polymorph and a druid with grandmastered shapechange have precisely the same duration. Does the druid simply leave beast form? Druids have the Wild Shape feature, and although numerous textual references refer to this ability, at no point (that I can find) are they specifically called "shapechangers". Correct me if I'm wrong, but a polymorphed creature is never a "Huge or larger. Outside of combat, the target is likely friendly to their allies, but is likely driven by basic animal stuff. So an Archmage's Spellcasting. Shapechange Vs True Polymorph - Tips & Tactics - D&D Beyond Have fun erasing the existence of every monster in the MM. RPGBOT uses the color coding scheme which has become common among Pathfinder build handbooks, which is simple to understand and easy to read at a glance. Pit Fiend or a Dragon are the obvious choices. A lich is an undead, not a humanoid or beast. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); DnD 5e New Practical Guide to True Polymorph and Shapechange, Practical Guide to True Polymorph and Shapechange DnD 5e. However, if you revert as a With Disintegrate's spell effect, there isn't a creature there any longer to reform into an original form. How does everyone play True seeing? Apparently, RAI is in opposition to my argument per a tweet from Mr Crawford (Credit to @Airatome for this tweet): Jeremy Crawford @JeremyECrawford Jeremy Crawford Retweeted Joshua by Raona Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:27 pm. Right now I believe it is correct to say they are identical save with respect to what races are allowed as targets. A difficult CR. Is there a difference between When you are reduced to 0 hit points and when you would be reduced to 0 hit points? The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? This answer favors Disintegrate because it bypasses, or renders null and void, considerations of the "unconscious" state at 0 HP. Is there any reason in dnd 5e to pick shapechange over true polymorph You cant use any legendary actions or lair actions of the new form. Druid To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Shapechanging You assume the form of a different creature for the duration. It seems odd that wild shape is replaced by shapechange as a druid ability, when shapechange is a powered up version of polymorph for druids and wizards according to D20. The targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. Apparently, RAI is in opposition to my other answer per a tweet from Mr Crawford (Credit to @Airatome for this tweet): Jeremy Crawford Unlike every other polymorph-type spell or ability, you maintain access to all your class features (including spellcasting). "Legendary Resistance (3/Day). Can I have my friend True Polymorph into a pit fiend, let me see it, not concentrate for an hour so they turn back, and then I can do it? When do you use in the accusative case? Just gotta make sure you can pass the Dispel check against yourself (maybe a friend can help you with a Guidance/Enhance Ability/Bardic Inspiration) or youll turn into a nothlit. I assume that means that allies are still allies, and enemies are still enemies. When the spell states that you take the form of "any creature with a challenge rating equal to your level or lower", does this mean the players class level, spell-caster level, or total level from all classes. Especially if you roll well on your breath weapon recharge. On True Polymorph, and Why It Isn't Actually Permanent. Fortunately, Crawford specified that you cant. is there such a thing as "right to be heard"? for druids in D&D. It doesnt fix what happens when you choose Brass Dragon though. normal form. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. All of that is part of the pile of dust. Would being ordered to fight be better or worse? * (a drop of mercury, a dollop of gum arabic, and a wisp of smoke). If we take both spells together, this seems to imply that Shapechange would allow you to turn into constructs were it not for the inclusion of the part where you cant, meaning that True Polymorph probably means that, in fact, you can. Druids suck? vs Shape Change and Polymorph - EN World @DavidCoffron Cool, that clears that up! ok, yep, so the definitions of Truesight and True Seeing are different. Alright, so this means that, if you have any equipment you really care about, youre going to want to keep yourself to medium size and probably humanoid-ish. Waiting for OP to clarify, but they could concentrate for the full hour ot make TP permanent, and then your concern is no longer an issue. 1.0, How to break the game with Animal Messenger (starting at level 3), AMFES: Summer 2, Now with Digital Tokens Included, 2020 Holiday Ornament and Black Friday Sale, If this is your first visit, be sure to Boy. That's over a day of straight shapechange. Legendary Resistance is a perfectly valid tool you gain access to. If you revert as a result of You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them, provided that your new form is physically capable of doing so. The tension between the specific rules, over the general 0 HP rule, exists because Polymorph spells also overwrite unconscious because you don't fall unconscious when you revert to old form if the damage taken doesn't also exceed your normal HP. Choose one creature or nonmagical object that you can see within range. Does the Way of the Long Death monk's Mastery of Death feature protect against the Disintegrate spell? Depending on how you have treated it. What a fun clause to start yet another argument with this spell. The 4th level spell, Polymorph, explicitly only allows turning into beasts. Be a Quori, use Mind Seed, turn into a Frost Worm and burrow into the ground. Role-playing Games Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for gamemasters and players of tabletop, paper-and-pencil role-playing games. But you would still be an "average example of the creature". Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Creature into Creature. I suggest picking a form for disabling enemies by turning enemies into it, a form for scouting, and a general combat form. Theres nothing really surprising here, although one thing can be a bit confusing. The spell lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. #DnD As long as the excess damage doesnt reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you arent knocked unconscious. What about mundane illusions while awake? Which are the best True Polymorph forms to cheese this spell? What happens when a Polymorphed creature is reduced to 0 HP by Disintegrate? You can get A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2 now at Gumroad, Started work on a 5E OGL SRD game that might get released on Drivethrurpg.com, http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/10/11/rue-polymorph/, The Fighter (redesigned with more than swinging a weapon in mind, uses inspiration dice), The Thug (Hybrid Barbarian/Rogue) ver. Additionally, with both of these spells, Legendary Resistance is a perfectly valid tool you gain access to. RPGBOTis unofficial Fan Content permitted under the Fan Content Policy. Nerdarchy the News Letter- http://nerdarchynewsletter.gr8.com/Polymorph, Shapechange, and Wildshape- D&D Spell and Class Feature Discussion| D&D Player TipsW. by Tarven Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:13 pm, Post Crawford calls out that, RAI, a depiction of one (like a drawing) would not work, but then goes on to say that using a Crystal Ball on one would. So if I'm understanding right: Disintegrate could replace the 0 HP trigger and thus insta-kill morphed creatures, or Polymorph would have precedence. True Polymorph and Polymorph both say target assumes the hit points of its new form, and when it reverts to its normal form, the creature returns to the number of hit points it had before it transformed. DnD 5e - New Practical Guide to True Polymorph and Shapechange And true polymorph allow changing creatures into objects and vice versa. (RAW). One amusing thing you may have noticed that you cant do with True Polymorph is turn objects into other objects. Not approved/endorsed by Wizards. Discussions about the Forgotten Kingdoms Game, Post Its certainly more exciting but also more dangerous. All of this detail diving violates KISS principle, which is why I tried to focus on the "spell effect" and its unusual " and your equipment too" detail as significant. If you concentrate on this spell for the full duration, the transformation lasts until it is dispelled. This is to represent that youre turning into a normal creature of that type, not one with additional training. Immediate vagueness problems. There is no best form; every problem requires a different tool. It retains its alignment and personality. The Polymorph would not be able to reverse the disintegration spell since it isn't a True Resurrection Spell, or a Wish Spell. by Gwain Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:22 pm, Post True Polymorph, Dragon Change Shape, and True Sight interaction Obviously if you aren't concentrating you don't have to worry about breaking concentration. To help with answers: is the spellcasting of an archmage a class or race feature? "Signpost" puzzle from Tatham's collection, Generating points along line with specifying the origin of point generation in QGIS. @BlueMoon93 Thanks, not sure if I can revive it; this is a good example of why it is important to avoid a link without a summary/sample of what's there. It only takes a minute to sign up. 2023 Wizards. With that said, I hope that this article helps if you are among the tiny fraction of players or DMs who ever get to cast high-level transmutation magic. It retains its alignment and personality. Next paragraph: The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it cant speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech, unless its new form is capable of such actions.. Just transmute a sufficiently large rock into a brontosaurus, then transmute that into, if Ive done my math right, roughly 100,000 pounds of diamond. Now, if we again look to the specifics of this spell versus True Polymorph, then this would seem to imply that, given that you cant use lair or legendary actions when you Shapechange, you can when you True Polymorph. The transformation lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. The only catch is that you can't regain HP this way - if you shapechange into a new form (not the initial casting) that has higher HP than what you're currently changed as, you keep the same HP. Shapechange targets self, where true polymorph can target others. By what metric are we going to judge that? Is the caster concentration for an hour to make the TP permanent? It turns out we are both wrong. If I choose skeleton, what kind of skeleton am I? at 0 hit points for the purposes of an effect like disintegrate until Just because your character knows the hand wiggles and latin necessary for casting Wish does not mean that your assumed form has the wellspring of power within to be able to make it happen, any more than if you taught the components to a random farmer. Dont consider combat forms from CR 0; there are better options available the moment you get Polymorph. You assume the form of a different creature for the duration. form to 0 hit points, you arent knocked unconscious. your normal form. The GM determines whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment, based on the creatures shape and size. and have only 1 hit point left, you revert and take 9 damage. You could see it as one of two things, though they both have very similar end results: a) The body simply disintegrates, and stays that way. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. A failed save always sucks, but I'd be glad to have this up as a damage sponge if nothing else in that case (because you'd lose the concentration after taking the damage). Shapechange gives more cheesy options, like a Pit Fiend bladesinging, with shield spell mastery. You can only speak if the creature can normally speak. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. It might remain friendly to you, depending on how you have treated it. You also need to actually use True Polymorph- the 9th level spell- to turn into an Archmage. Can True Polymorph create creatures with the Spellcasting feature? dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your and perceive the original form of a Shapechanger or a creature that is transformed by magic. @NautArch That's correct. The targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the new form. Well, no. Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0, TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History, Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News, Wildshape Interactions with Weird Racial Features, Ignore/Block Essentials, Paid Registrations by. shapechange vs true polymorph - CDL Technical & Motorcycle Driving School As written, I can polymorph a sufficiently large rock into a Drider, Plane Shift it to the Demonweb Pits, and then have it run up and try to attack Lolth while I sit safely at home. Its statistics, other than its size, are the same in each form. Monsters and Death Now, if you wanted to True Polymorph into that same Drow Matron Mother, your entire statblock gets replaced with hers, including her spellcasting traits and slots. This means that if you are under Polymorph, Wildshape, Shapechange, or True Polymorph, you'd trigger the "revert to your original form" condition once Disintegrate reduced you to 0 HP, and take any additional damage to your original form in excess of what it took to reduce you to zero from Disintegrate.